OK so I'm gonna write about something that I'm wrestling with right now. Should this offend anyone, go against anyone's beliefs, or hurt anyone's feelings I apoligize. This is not my intention whatsoever. I'm writing out a decision that i am struggling with. Also, should anyone actually read this blog and feel the need to comment, just remember to be respectful cause the things I"m struggling with are hot-button issues.
As you saw in the previous post I was super excited about becoming a member of CityChurch. Now I am stuggling with the decision. For anyone that reads this and goes there, I ABSOLUTELY PROMISE YOU this is NOTHING against you guys, I love you all, and regardless of whether I'm a member or not I fully plan to keep attending every Sunday and going to CityLife!! But I need to think this through, and sometimes writing it out helps.
Here's the deal. There are two things that CityChurch disagrees with me on - homosexuality and ordination of women. Now I'm OK with the homosexuality disagreement. I personally believe that being gay is not a sin, they do. HOWEVER, I am OK with that because of how they handle it. One of CityChurch's core values is story, the idea that you can't judge someone because you odn't know their story, you don't know what they've been through. They also fully believe in loving everyone. As such, they really preach a gospel of openness, of "Believe and you will be saved", so that being gay is not a condemnation as it is with some churches. Thus you won't find CityChurch people picketing The Laramie Project with Fred Phelps. I'm OK with that. Although I disagree with the idea that it's a sin, I'd much rather be involved with a place that says "love all, get to know people's story, turn people to Christ" rather than "You are automatically going to Hell!"
So even though I disagree with it, I'm basically over that hurdle. But the ordination of women one is a hurdle that I don't know if I can jump. I've grown up with women pastors and it's been ingrained in me, both from my dad but especially from my mom, that we should not be disqualified from the pulpit purely because of our gender. Mom's always said she could never go to a Missouri Synod lutheran church because they don't ordain women. The presbytery that CityChurch is part of reserved the position of "Teaching Elder", which is a pastor, for men only. Now women can still hold high positions in the church - we can be deacons. But we cannot be pastors, AND we cannot be elders, which are the lay people that make up the full-on leadership of the church. I know there are bibilical reasons both for the ordination of women and homosexuality, but this is just what I personally feel.
Some of you may say "What's the big deal? You agree with so much of what they preach, you love everybody there, why are you struggling?". See, you can't be a member of two churches. Thus, to be a member of CityCHurch, I have to transfer my membership from Lafayette Park United Methodist Church. At LPUMC, gay men and women are fully accepted as children of God. Also, not only are women ordained, but the 2 pastors at LPUMC are women. I left Lafayette Park because there weren't young people I could relate to. I really have found a family with CityChurch, one that had been lacking with Lafayette Park. But can I really and completely leave a church that stands for everything I believe in to join one I love but stands for two things I am heartily against??
I really don't know. I think prayer and thought is definitely needed here. As I said, should any CityChurch people read this, PLEASE know that regardless of my decision I'm not leaving! I'm still gonna be a regular attendee! This is just something I need to work out with God and me.
Sad thing is I don't even know if I have time to really wrestle with this, cause right now I have to get my stuff together to meet with up Danny and Gretchen to talk about the programs we're presenting Wednesday. Oh and I also have to find an article to include with the 3 Jay assigned us and be ready to do an oral report on it for Thursday. Why do issues like this come up right when I'm already super busy???
God give me strength and enlightenment as I make this decision...
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Hey Katherine! Just wanted to say Hi and that I actually do read your blog :) As to your church struggle I have a very different point of view because I'm agnostic and haven't been a member of a church since I was seven. I disagree so much with what most churches preach that I've given up on finding a church that fits my particular understanding of the universe.
ReplyDeleteYour problem seems to be rooted in what you want out of your church. I always viewed church as a place for like-minded individuals to meet and worship based on their shared beliefs. I never saw church as a social club (although I have many friends who do) So in my eyes, if City Church doesn't mesh with your beliefs then I would keep looking for a new place. You just have to decide how important those issues are for you.
Personally I believe that the treatment of homosexuals in this country is one of the most disgusting traits of our society. I get very upset when someone implys that homosexuality is a sin. I hate that we are a country of bigots that time and time again deny our own citizens rights because of their sexual orientation. So I suppose you know how I would vote on the church issue. Either way I hope you eventually find what you're looking for. Maybe if you're looking for a group of friends you should look into joining some other type of club. Try looking for a book club or become a student member of a museum, maybe even join an aerobics class at a gym to meet a group of peers? Perhaps finding a new church isn't the way to go about it if you're happy at LPUMC
Sorry this was so long, I'm at work and I'm taking a mental break from actually working :)
Katherine,
ReplyDeleteAll really good stuff... They are both very difficult topics and like everything else, we're in process (i.e. story). The great part about God is that He doesn't mind our wrestling/struggling... indeed, He encourages it! If you ever have any questions or want to rant/rave, I'm all ears! This is good stuff and I greatly appreciate the tone and heart that this comes from. So often with blogs it can turn into a bitch-fest or means of gossip without accountability (truth without love), and there is NO mistaking that this an example of that!
Correction: "There is NO mistaking this AS an example of that..."
ReplyDeleteThanks for the support guys! I really appreciate the understanding (and reading the blog :-) ). This one was a pretty heavy post, most will not be this way, as shown by my "I"m addicted to Soupman" post :-). I also REALLY appreciate how the comments were put, and I mean this in all seriousness - I personally haven't had this, but sometimes when someone writes a controversial thing you get the "You're totally wrong, here's the right way to think" comments that just suck, so I was excited to read your two! Here's my response -
ReplyDeleteAmanda - THANK YOU for posting (yeah I know the feeling on work... that's what I'm doing right now...). I am totally with you on the issue of discrimination against gays. As my sister said, it's the last accepted form of bigotry. You can't deny people's civil rights based on their race, or their gender anymore. Yet if they love someone of the same sex, it's perfectly OK. There's a problem with that in my mind. Believe me, if I felt that CityChurch was the type where you'd hear "All homosexuals are going to hell!" preached from the pulpit, I'd be out of there so fast. I didn't find out about CityChurch's stance on that until later, but was able to accept how they felt because of the way it's handled. Doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind about homosexuality, or the fact that when I hear stuff like "all homosexuals are going to hell" I'm going to let it go, just that I can accept their view of it based on the way it's handled.
Also I understand where you're coming from on the church stuff. When I started this journey a year ago, I looked at church as a social club in a lot of ways. But as I've tried different places and met people it's become more than that, and I feel like I'm growing a lot in my personal faith. That's why I'm able to stay at CityChurch, though not as a member. I talked to my mom about it, and she said she went through a similar experience with Church of CHrist in college (which is REALLY conservative). She said she didn't agree with some of their beliefs, and after a while she ended up leaving them and going back to her parents church (incidentally that's when she met my dad). But she said that she needed to be at Church of Christ at that moment in her life. So CityChurch may not be the place where I stay for the rest of my life, i.e. I may not watch my grandkids grow up there, and maybe eventually I'll go back to Lafayette Park or a place like it that has closer views to mine on some of these issues. But for where I'm at right now, it's a place that, for whatever reason, I need to be. Doesn't mean that I change my views on issues. Doesn't mean I have to automatically support everything they do. Just that it's a place for me to learn whatever I'm supposed to learn from them (which I'm still figuring out).
Brad - you have no idea how relieved I am to see that post, cause the response to this from CityCHurch has been something I've been a little worried about! :-). Thanks for listening to the struggle, understanding it, and not trying to "correct" me on anything but just appreciating where I am on this! Really does mean a lot! Also I appreciate the comment on the blog - I'm trying not to let this turn into a bitch-fest or gossip cause it's easy to do (definitely happened with my xanga in college... oh xanga, so long ago :-) ). Just wanted to say how grateful I am for you and Hannah and everybody at CityChurch, just for your friendship and listening when I need it!!
K this response I believe is long enough. THANKS GUYS!
BTW, when I say that anti-gay is the last form of bigotry or when I talk about this issue, I don't mean to sound like everyone who disagrees with me on this is wrong and evil. If you believe homosexuality is a sin/against the bible, fine. I disagree whole heartedly with you. I won't change your view, you won't change mine. But in my opinion, if you really feel it's a sin, the way to handle it is not to commit hate crimes, scream at every gay person you meet that they are a sinner, or refuse to support/picket any thing you see as promoting homosexuality. The way to handle it is to protect the "sanctity of marriage" by working on YOUR marriage and YOUR relationships with others. At the very least, find out someone's story before you automatically damn them to hell - who are you to say that when you don't know what they've been through?
ReplyDelete